Mapping 10 Billion Trees with NASA Scientist Compton Tucker

Susan Wise: Welcome to Stars Launch Pod: Space, Technology, and Research Sciences, brought to you by StarSciences.org, where we connect, collaborate, and accelerate. I’m your host, Susan Wise, and I’m excited to have with me Compton Tucker, Earth scientist and academic. Compton, welcome to the program.

Compton Tucker: Nice to be here.

Susan Wise: Tell us a little bit about what you’re doing right now.

Compton Tucker: I’m an Earth scientist who uses satellite data to study the planet. In my work, I study global land photosynthesis and glacier extent. Some of the datasets we use can also help predict agricultural productivity and track infectious diseases because of associations with weather and climate.

Susan Wise: That’s fascinating. That’s so interesting. So… can you see into my backyard right now with satellites?

Compton Tucker: Well, yes, we probably can—but I’m not sure where you are.

Susan Wise: [laughs] Fair enough. You mentioned glaciers. I just got back from Glacier National Park, which is such a fascinating place to see. Of course, your view and your work are very different. I’m curious—what are you currently working on that furthers the space industry?

Compton Tucker: One of the things I’m doing is using large volumes of commercial satellite data to study Earth in new ways. We’re able to map the carbon in individual trees at the 50-centimeter level—something we couldn’t do just five or six years ago. These new high-resolution commercial satellite sources let us work at the object level. In our case, objects are trees, even very small trees or shrubs, if we choose.

Susan Wise: That’s amazing. We were also in South Lake Tahoe recently, and as we drove through, my husband noticed a lot of trees were dead or dying. I looked it up and found they sometimes experience what’s called a “mass die-off.” I imagine your work is critical in monitoring things like that on a global scale.

Compton Tucker: Exactly. With commercial satellite data, we can actually count the number of individual trees.

Susan Wise: Incredible. During your career, what has been your biggest “aha” moment?

Compton Tucker: There have been several. When I came out of graduate school, I had the right background to come to NASA because of my work in spectroscopy—studying how plants reflect light. As a postdoctoral fellow, I was able to influence the configuration of instrumentation on a particular satellite series so that it could study photosynthesis. At first, people asked, “Why should we change this for someone who just finished graduate school?” I said, “Because you’ll be able to do things you can’t imagine.” And it worked out. Now we can study photosynthesis at scales from kilometers down to 50 centimeters from space.

Susan Wise: That’s amazing. I know that monitoring tree growth is very important to you. On a recent trip, we went to Yellowstone, Glacier, and the Badlands. At Yellowstone, I noticed many young trees with signs saying when they were planted—like, “These trees were planted in 1981.” It was encouraging to see that regrowth.

Compton Tucker: Yes, and in some places people claim they’re planting trees. With commercial satellite data, we can verify whether that’s true. If they’re paid to plant and don’t follow through, others can step in.

Susan Wise: That’s great. I’m a big tree person myself. I’ve planted many trees since I was in second grade. On Arbor Day, they gave us a tiny pine seedling wrapped in a damp paper towel. I planted it in the backyard, built a little fence around it so my brother wouldn’t mow it down, and today—40 or 50 years later—it’s a giant tree.

Compton Tucker: Good for you.

Susan Wise: Thank you—it’s pretty amazing. Ever since then, I’ve had a fondness for trees. What has been your biggest challenge, and how did you overcome it?

Compton Tucker: One day, I got a call from the director of High-Performance Computing at NASA. He asked, “Why don’t you propose a huge project that can’t be done?” I said, “I’d like to map all the trees from the Atlantic Ocean to the Red Sea in the semi-arid region—an area about as large as the continental 48 states plus Alaska.”

Susan Wise: Wow.

Compton Tucker: At first, we failed miserably. But we regrouped, built a strong team, and eventually mapped 10 billion individual trees at the tree level. We published the work in Nature. The editor asked, “How will people use this data?” So we built a viewer that lets anyone—from individual farmers in Africa to researchers—explore trees from number one to number 10 billion. It was the biggest project I’ve ever worked on, and it was incredibly rewarding. Our team grew closer, and we also trained interns—our “farm team,” like in baseball—many of whom later joined us as full researchers.

Susan Wise: So you’re inspiring younger people to continue the work.

Compton Tucker: Exactly. We develop new techniques, and then younger researchers leapfrog over us, doing things we can’t even imagine now.

Susan Wise: That’s wonderful. When you look at all these trees, does it matter what type of tree it is?

Compton Tucker: It depends on the region. In semi-arid areas with limited diversity, any tree is important. In other regions, species may matter more. For example, right now we’re mapping all the Baobab trees in Africa and Madagascar—beautiful, massive trees with cultural and ecological value—so they can be protected.

Susan Wise: I love that. Personally, I have a dogwood, a little gem magnolia, a maple, and a Japanese maple—the kind that turns deep red.

Compton Tucker: Good for you. Those are wonderful trees.

Susan Wise: Thank you. Before we wrap up, what one piece of advice would you like to share with our listeners?

Compton Tucker: If you’re interested in research, make sure you get a strong background as an undergraduate. That foundation enables you to tackle bigger challenges later. I went to Colorado State University partly because I wanted to ski in the winter, but I ended up learning so much that prepared me for graduate school and eventually NASA. Everything fell into place because of that background.

Susan Wise: That’s so true. Do you have a project, past or present, that’s especially close to your heart?

Compton Tucker: Yes. Right now, we’re mapping trees in far northern latitudes to study how quickly boreal forests are moving into tundra. Trees only grow in tundra if the climate warms, so this is critical to understand. It requires vast amounts of satellite data and high-performance computing, but it’s doable.

Susan Wise: That’s incredible work. Thank you so much for joining us today—we really appreciate it.

Compton Tucker: My pleasure. It’s been fun, and I’ve enjoyed our conversation.

Susan Wise: Be sure to join us as we connect, collaborate, and accelerate. Visit StarSciences.org for a free one-year membership—just enter promo code FRIENDS321. If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review and subscribe. Until next time, keep looking up. Compton Tucker, thank you again for joining us.

Compton Tucker: You’re very welcome—but remember, we look down from satellites.

Susan Wise: [laughs] You look down, and I’ll look up at you.

Compton Tucker: Perfect.

Susan Wise: Thank you.

Compton Tucker: You’re welcome.